Luke 17 and the Rapture

**SERay** · 08-02-2014, 10:45 PM

Is the Rapture Valid

I tell people often that some of the traditions of the Church are held in error, sometimes with great passion. Rather Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, or Anglican... traditions, myth and fables are often held to as if canon, when it has no validity. Sorry, no rapture, but persecution is certain. During the coming persecution, the Bible is very clear on how Christians will overcome, Revelation 12:11 says, " And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony;..." The Word of their testimony!

“Behold, I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:51 This is about the resurrection “at his coming,” not a heavenly rescue!

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” John 6:39 “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” Job 14:12

The 1980 book "The Late, Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey was a boon for literalist, premillennial, dispensational eschatology. It did more to shape the doctrine of this century than the Bible alone. It terrified people, causing many to return to the faith for fear of being left behind. The book was sensational, and became a platform for pastors and even scholars on the subject.

What Happens to Us After We Die?

Having pastored since 1987, I have seen shifts in my personal understanding, only after years of study to gain a better understanding. There are three schools of thought: people die and the soul enters into a sleep, or they are escorted into eternity without delay (a type of time warp) or they go to a temporary paradise to wait (like Abraham's Bosom described in the Torah). For the sake of full disclosure, we might include the purgatory option, but this is fully made up by the early Catholic bishops for manipulation purposes.

For those in Jesus Christ, the Scriptures reveal that after death, a believers’ soul is taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). Also we read what Jesus said to the repentant thief, "Jesus answered him, 'Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.' Luke 23:43. For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:6-8; Phil. 1:23). 1 Cor. 15:50-54 and 1 Thess. 4:13-17 reveal that at the resurrection of believers (at a later date), the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. The glorified body will be like the Lord's ascended body, eternal for abiding in the new heavens and new earth.

Like the believers who enter paradise as a temporary state, the Scriptures imply the unbelievers are also sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. In Luke 16:22-23, the passage describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” Rev. 20:11-15 goes on further to describe all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire.

Scripture is fairly conclusive to state that there is no such thing as purgatory, limbo, or death sleep. These are fallacious traditions held in varied degrees by many of denominational ecclesia. After the souls passes, a person resides either in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will be finalized. Believers will finally be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire that was originally intended only for Lucifer and his minion (Revelation 20:11-15), a place isolated and predetermined before the fall of mankind.

**Roger** · 08-03-2014, 02:38 AM

Most people have a Panmillennial view--it will all pan out in the end. I am a Premillennial Dispensationalist who believes God's economy has always been by Grace through faith-- Abraham believed and it was accreted to him as righteousness. The movies that come out (hollowood) will always be empty of the truth-- The Rapture and Noah (The Neverending Story meets the Bible).... I also believe that if there is no change there is no Jesus. Putting ones trust in isle walk, a sinner’s prayer, baptism, an emotional feeling.... will not save ---only an encounter with Jesus when He baptizes in the Holy Spirit. Whether repentance occurs before or after, since having a change of mind is not a work, repentance happens.

I think too much emphasis is put on the future and Heaven. Since, we are already citizens of Heaven we should concentrate on the now, where we can work while it is still day. I do believe that there is a Rapture it is from the Latin word rapturo (to snatch-up) in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. But, I also think that every day can be a tribulation to many Christians on the planet and whether we are raptured or die we will all meet the Lord and have to give an account of our lives. Living in a state of imminency should cause us to live Holier lives.

One other thought. The Church is not mentioned in Revelation after Chapter 3. The beginning of Chapter 4 John goes up into heaven. In chapter 7 on it becomes about the Jewish nation and their purification, since the times of the Gentiles are complete.

**SERay** · 08-03-2014, 03:05 AM

The concept of the “Rapture” is held with fervor within many churches, like Calvary Chapel, in which Jacob Prasch for example, is a strong adherent. I tried to go with the teaching from the early years at Liberty University, but it simply didn't work for more reasons than I can possibly outline here. I have heard all the arguments, and what some fundamentalist teachers press on is old hat with a considerable amount of extenuations that are not substantiated. If we listen to one person all the time, we are going to come out with a lopsided view--no man gets it all right

Many use language references and jargon, Greek and Hebrew combinations to sound authoritative, sufficient to confuse the listener into accepting what they are being taught. We are taught by Paul to be like the Bereans and study to show ourselves approved. Don't take another person's word for it, no matter how convincing the delivery. Study!!!

I have gone the whole spectrum and came down as a Postmillennialism, again for more reasons than I have time to detail. As most people know, the word "rapture" comes from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb "caught up" that's found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. You can call it the "pre-trib rapture," the "pre-trib rapturo," or the "pre-trib caught up" - it's all the same thing. Paul did not provide any other details of this event, and it is not mentioned elsewhere in the Bible. Questions about the details and timing of the Rapture are not answered in the Bible. The lack of details has led to different theories and interpretations. We do know the believers in Thessalonica were undergoing significant persecution at the hands of both Jew and Gentile antagonists. Paul wrote them because he had concern for their faith lest his “labor [was] in vain” (3:5). He was giving them a hope of the things to come. The doctrine of the rapture was meant to enable believers undergoing persecution to fix their eyes on their ultimate glory in Christ, not give them an escapism mentality that was culled later.

The pre-trib rapture can be traced back to John Darby and the Plymouth Brethren in the year 1830. F.F. Bruce, who was part of the Brethren movement his entire life, but one who did not agree with pretribulationism. He pondered, where did he [Darby] get it? The reviewer’s answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of unfulfilled prophecy. John Walvoord’s assessed that any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally. Darby’s views undoubtedly were gradually formed from his pre-Pentecostal group.

One of the big problems the Church faces when studying this subject is that many of the verses and passages used to defend the Pre-trib Rapture view are subject to the incredibly poor exegesis of the text in question. Often Pre-trib teachers will point to a Greek or Hebrew meaning of a word to lend support to their argument when, in fact, the Greek or Hebrew word often does not mean what they say it means. Another related incorrect technique they use is to not give the full possible meanings of a Greek or Hebrew word – instead, giving only one possible translation of a word that supports their argument without also giving the additional meaning(s) that would defeat their argument entirely. An example of this is the common misuse of the Greek word “ek” by Pre-trib teachers to mean “from” where it is often translated as “through.”

The overall usage of technical terms in contexts dealing with the second coming weighs heavily in favor of the post-tribulation position (and against all other rapture views including pre-wrath). These terms were understood by the first-century believers to refer to a particular coming of the Lord without explanations in the context of being pre- or post-tribulational.

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth." (Revelation 3:10) As a note, the book of Revelation never claims that it is in chronological order even though there are events that do happen in order, which is used to defend the rapture. Plenty of studies that unravels the argument in support of the rapture position: http://www.prophecybook.org/PMj.a1999.html

This is a crucial verse for dispensationalists, and they repeat it often to prove their pretribulation rapture position. The majority of pretribulationalists will place their hope of an "any moment rapture" on this verse when, in fact, one of the leading proponents of the pretrib position, Dr. John Walvoord (former president of Dallas Theological Seminary) states in his book "The Rapture Question" on pages 70-71 that "it may be debatable to what extent this (verse, Rev. 3:10) constitutes absolute proof for pretribulationism." Obviously, there is some confusion! In this brief study let us take a look at this verse of Scripture and examine it to see what it really is teaching.

Examine the Context

First, look at the context of this important passage. It is found within the sixth letter (of seven written to the churches) and is addressed to the church in Philadelphia. By examining the content of these letters, one can easily see that they fall into three major categories. First, there is the dead church, Sardis, whose only word from the Lord is to "Wake up." Because of the influence of unbiblical doctrine, five of the seven: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, and Laodicea are compromising churches; the major exhortation to these churches is to "Repent." When you realize that in the scheme of end-time events these seven churches represent conditions as they will be at the time of the coming of Christ, one can readily see where the church is today. Finally, there is a faithful church, Philadelphia, to which no negative warning is given, only praise and the promise of a reward. Notice it is because these dear believers "have kept the word of My perseverance." As a result, Christ will "keep them from the hour of testing."

Examine the Greek

The word "perseverance" in Greek is HPOMONES which has the basic meaning of hiding under, of patient enduring and fortitude, or remaining behind. In the context of this passage, you will notice that "perseverance" is closely related to the "hour of testing," which is the translation of the Greek word, PEIRASMOS which means to examine or prove. Peirasmos is frequently translated, "to tempt" and that is important because the Bible teaches that it is Satan who tempts. "For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter (Satan) might have tempted you, and our labor should be in vain" (1 Thessalonians 3:5, emphasis added). James 1:2 and 12 tell us "Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials (peirasmois). Blessed is the man that perseveres (hpomenei) under trial (peirasmon)." James is quick to add in the next verse (1:13) that God "does not tempt anyone." From the endnote on page 469 of The Sign, Mr. Van Kampen adds this thought, "It is interesting to note how the 'hour of testing' that is referred to in Revelation 3:10 is also referred to by Peter, using the identical Greek word: 'The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. . . Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing (peirasmos), as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you my rejoice with exultation' (1 Peter 4:7, 12, 13, emphasis added). And then again the second epistle of Peter states, 'then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation (peirasmos), and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment.' (2 Peter 2:9). In both cases, the believer is present during the peirasmos, the great tribulation of the Antichrist, rather than being protected away from it.

But now take a close look at the important words that the pretribulationist hang their hat on; "keep you from." In the English translations, it would appear that we, the believers, are kept from entering the "hour of testing." But is that what it is really saying? There seems to be a volume of Scripture such as Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2 that would clearly indicate that believers are going to experience the testing during the Great Tribulation of Antichrist. In the Greek "will keep you from" is TEREO EK. TEREO means to "watch over protectively, guard" and with the preposition EK it carries the idea of being guarded or protected and rescued out from the midst of danger. If the idea of keeping one from entering were intended the preposition APO would have been used. So it is the idea of deliverance out from within rather than an external deliverance.

More Research

Now, look at what some others have to say: Goodspeed translates 3:10 - "Because you have kept in mind the message of what I endured. I will also keep you safe in the time of testing that is going to come upon the whole world, to test the inhabitants of the earth."

Trench - "The promise does not imply that the Philadelphia Church should be exempted from the persecutions which should come on all other portions of the Church; that by any special privilege they should be excused from fiery trials through which others should be called to pass. It is a better promise than this; and one which, of course, they share with all who are faithful as they are - to be kept in temptation, not to be exempted from temptation."

Robert Gundry - "to keep or protect in a sphere of danger, and that because ek means emergence out from within, the combination of the two Greek words (TEREO EK) means to protect believers in a sphere of danger (the tribulation period), with a final emergence out from within this sphere."

The clear and obvious meaning concerns protection within the sphere of danger and not protection from danger. Christ has promised the faithful believers that He will deliver them at the revelation of His Glory at His Coming. To make this verse of Scripture mean "deliverance before the testing begins" is manipulating the Scripture to support a false position rather than accepting what the Scripture really says.

Daniel 9:27 may be the most abused verse on the subject of the end times, and it is a linchpin in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory: "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering." "He" in this verse refers to Messiah, not Antichrist, for the main subject of this section is Messiah.

Protestants, referring to Isaiah 28:15 and "a covenant with death," say that the Antichrist makes a peace treaty for one week—seven years—with the Jews. But this makes no sense! Why would the Beast "destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary" (Daniel 9:26), and "then . . . confirm a covenant . . . for one week" (verse 27) with the vanquished Jews? The timing is wrong! Verses 26-27a speak of events that occurred in the first century.

It makes more sense to attribute this covenant to our Savior. He was "cut off, but not for Himself" (verse 26a) by His redemptive death in AD 31. He had spent 3½ years "confirm[ing] a covenant [the New Covenant] with many," and "in the middle of the week He [brought] an end to sacrifice and offering" (verse 27a) by the sacrifice of His perfect life. This simply restates what is said in verse 26a. If this is the case, the whole idea of seven years of tribulation vanishes.

There are many details that contradict a pretribulation rapture. It is impossible for a resurrection to occur before the Tribulation if the First Resurrection happens after the Tribulation, as seen in Revelation 20:4-5. How can there be a resurrection before, if the First Resurrection takes place after? And if one looks at I Corinthians chapter 15 again, one can see, in verses 51-52, “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” If the ‘last trumpet’ is blown before the Tribulation, can there be another trumpet at the end? Acts 3:21 has this to say about Christ’s return: “…whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.” It’s easier to understand what is being said here in the New International Version: “He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as He promised long ago through His holy prophets.” It makes no sense for God to restore everything before the Tribulation! When Christ comes again, God will restore the Earth. He certainly won’t do that before or during the period when the Antichrist is in power when He will be pouring out catastrophe after catastrophe on the Earth and all of her inhabitants.

Is the rapture seen in Revelation 3:10? Absolutely! Right where Christ says it will occur when He cuts the persecution of Antichrist short and comes in Glory to deliver the saints out of Great Tribulation. I could go one, but Christians have to simply agree to disagree on this detail, I really can't substantiate the teaching and find holes in all the theories. The only thing I am sure of is all who are in Christ are going to be with the Lord, even though exact details of how things unfold are unclear. "Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely." 1 Cor. 13:12.

“Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind” by David B. Currie is an extensive study that skillfully unravels the yarn to expose what the Bible actually teaches on this subject. With hundreds of the highest ratings, the content will force a person to come to terms with the difficult study of Eschatology.

Luke 17 and the Rapture

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