Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses

[Sheep]

I was wondering other then the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, are there any other false churches/christians out there? So are all those people doom to hell?? What if some those people grew up in those churches but in thier hearts they really wanted and loved Jesus?? Sometimes it's difficult because there are so many false and deceiving out there. One person can interpret the bible one way and another a different way. Get them both together and you have a "who's right" argument. The question is how do we know who is really right in interpreting the bible?

[SERay]

What's the Difference

This is one of the subjects I have not addressed through eternalpath.com, because it has been thoroughly beaten to death across the internet. Meaning, it has been written on so many times, that it is redundant for me to write upon it.

This website did a great job breaking it down into simple easy to comprehend facts: http://www.4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_lds_cults.php

A common trait of false religions is to set themselves up as “mediator” between their followers and God. Whether we’re talking about Mormonism with its prophet Joseph Smith and subsequent prophets, Islam with its prophet Mohammed, The Roman Catholic Church and it's intercessions to Mary and adoration of the Saints, New Age Movement with its gurus and spirit-guides, or Jehovah’s Witnesses with the so-called “Faithful and Discreet Slave” organization, Satan’s tactic is always the same: Convince people that they cannot receive communication directly from God and require them to look to human leaders for spiritual guidance and support. I am not by any means discounting the value of leaders and teachers, I am merely pointing out that some perversions of God's counsel imply that only through the "organization or ritual" is the only way unto the Creator.

The Scriptures accurately teach, “As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.” (1 John 2:27, NWT). We do not need an organization to “teach” us spiritual truth after we have matured in the way, for we have Christ and the “anointing” of His Spirit to lead us. Just like first-century Christians, God’s Holy Spirit is the one who “guides” us into “all truth” (John 16:13).

While it is important to believe the teachings of the Bible in order to come into “the Truth,” the Bible does not point to a certain religion or religious organization as being “the Truth” as for example the Roman Catholic Church does. I say ‘Roman’, because not all Catholic churches follow in error of the old ways in submission to the Vatican under Papal Bull, for example the edict of 1871 that proclaimed the infallibility of the Pope. On the contrary, it points to a Person, rather than a religion as being “the Truth.” At John 14:6, Jesus proclaimed, “I am …the truth,” and in His prayer to the Father, He said, “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:17, New World Translation - NWT) Who is the living “Word” who is “Truth”? John 1:14 tells us, “…the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father.” (John 1:14, NWT) Not only do we see Jesus being identified in Scripture as “the Truth,” but He proclaims at John 5:39-40 that all of Scripture was written to “bear witness” about Him!

Indeed, we place our souls in great peril if we entrust our eternal destiny to the hands of human leaders for spiritual security. The Bible says, “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind and makes flesh his strength.” (Jeremiah 17:5). Galatians 1:6-9 says that even if an angel should bring a different message, let him be accursed! 1 Corinthians 12:3 says that no one who is speaking by the spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. The ultimate test is, does a given system of faith exalt Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? Krishna is not Lord, Buddha is not Lord, Allah is not our redeemer, only Jesus is Lord and Savior. Joseph Smith is not the true prophet, and Jim Jones is not the true prophet, neither is JC Knight who manifests the demon Ramtha. Jesus is the true prophet, because all his words have or are coming true. The truth does not come from reading horoscopes or psychic readings, but from the Word of God which points to Jesus our Lord. Any other teaching is heretical against the revelation of the Truth found in the Son of God.

The following is a highly informative video outlining the truth about the deceptions of the Mormon church: CLICK HERE.

Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life." He IS truth and there is no other way.

[Duncanbelem]

My opinion on the matter.

I love your desire to bring souls unto Christ. He will greatly be pleased with our efforts. For this is our purpose to bring souls unto Him. I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I desire to return to Him. I know that He is the path, and that there is no other path, but I must confess I am a Mormon. I need to be honest with you. I have no desire to contentious. I want you to continue to do what you believe Christ wants you to do, for I am but a man.

I grew up as a Mormon. I was taught in the Mormon Church. I served as a Missionary. And this is what I do
"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." -- 2 Nephi 25:26 The Book of Mormon.

I know that there is no other way but Christ. Joseph Smith is not our path.

" And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is fone God, without end. Amen." 2 Nephi 31:21 The Book of Mormon

I too know that we shouldn't trust in the arm of the flesh

"O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm." 2 Nephi 4:34 The Book of Mormon

I also read and trust the Bible, The Book of Mormon Commands us to.

Now about Joseph Smith. I have heard of the accounts about Joseph Smith you have made. But these account are made by Men, and cursed is He than puts His trust in men.

How have you come to know God? Where did you learn of Him? I Trust you value the Bible as much as I do. I would be lost in a dark hole without the Bible. I think we all would agree that we would all be lost without the Bible. But yet not one word in the Bible was not written by a Man. Yes God used Man to write His words, but all the words were written by men, and yet without the Bible we would not be saved. Because it was by the Power of Christ that is was made.

God works through Man to bring to pass His eternal work.

What is the purpose of the Bible, to point man to Christ
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" John 5:39

What is the purpose of Prophets
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" Acts 10:43
To point people to Christ. Then were never meant to replace Christ

What happens to men if their are no prophets or teachers

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ" Eph 4: 11-15.

So without men to teach the true doctrine of Christ we will be tossed to and fro in false doctrine of men.

What are some false Doctrines of men

Homosexuality and that it is ok.
Marriage is bad.
We should allow gay marriage.
Evil is good and good is evil.
sex before marriage is good and normal.
and the list goes on and on and on.

So back to the accounts by a man about Joseph Smith. Then same could be said about

Moses someone could call him a murderer. Ex 2 : 14
"And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known."

David, author of psalms, could be called an adulterer. 2 Sam 12:19

Paul criticized the church of god and murdered many of it's members. Acts 9

Peter could be called a liar. Matt 26:34

the are all men but were used by God. The above accounts are true, but there are many false accounts of men.

Many called Jesus Christ a blasphemer. Matt 26:65 The Jews killed Him for this very reason. Even after that for hundreds of years members of the church were killed because people thought they were evil. These accounts were false

Just because a man says someone is evil, doesn't mean he is.

I do not put my trust in men but in Christ, Jesus.

I do not wish to argue about this. We should not fight. If you would like to discuss them thats ok. I believe we should unite forces against evil.

I believe we should unite against sin. Unite for Jesus Christ.
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"
Eph 4:13

[Duncanbelem]

The Video Link

SERay I respect you are your believes, but after researching the link of the video you posted I would like to conclude it is not very accurate of my beliefs, or my church.

It is ok that we believe different things. I believe God Will not forsake those who truly seek Him. No Matter what religion you are if you truly seek God He will show you the truth.

We might have differing opinions about what is truth, and what path we should follow.

BUT I will never declare "I am right , therefore follow me"/ For I am a sinner. But I will always declare, as my religion dictates. "If anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask of God" James 1:5 And follow Him. He will answer!

If anyone has any questions about the truthfulness of the video link posted above, members of my religion have gone over the video in this ink

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD - FAIRMormon
Search for the Truth DVD review in PDF Format - FAIRMormon

I also exhort you to read the Book of Mormon with real intent and Ask God, and trust whatever answer you get.

Also here is a video of a testimony of a modern apostle about the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith

YouTube - Testimony of the Book of Mormon

[SERay]

I have in fact read some of the "Book of Mormon", with exegesis studies of the books of Nephi, Enos and Helaman. I also have read much of "The Pearl of Great Price" and "The Doctrine and Covenants." In my early days, I did give consideration to the Mormon church. However, the "Book of Mormon" contains numerous passages that contradict what the Bible says. The following examples are instances of such contradictions.

• Rather than God confusing “the language of all the earth” at the tower of Babel as the Bible records (Genesis 11:9), the Book of Mormon contends that the language of Jared, his brother, as well as their friends and family members “were not confounded” (Ether 1:33-37).
• Contrary to the Bible prophecy concerning the Lord’s birth in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), and the fulfillment of that prophecy in Matthew 2:1, the Book of Mormon reads: “And behold, he (Jesus) shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” (Alma 7:10, parenthetical comment and emp. added). The writer of the Book of Mormon was simply wrong.
• The Bible tells us that at the crucifixion of Jesus, darkness covered the land for three hours (Matthew 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44). However, the Book of Mormon states three different times that there was darkness “for the space of three days” (Helaman 14:20,27; 3 Nephi 8:3, emp. added). Of course, this is a big difference.
• Finally, whereas the Book of Mormon has people wearing the name Christian in about 73 B.C. (Alma 46:13, 15), the Bible clearly reveals that the disciples of Christ “were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts 11:26, emp. added). This was in approximately A.D. 40, and thus represents a difference of over 100 years. Which account are people to believe? After all, according to Mormons, both books are inspired.

There are other similar mistakes where the Book of Mormon includes the spurious KJV readings in 3 Nephi 13:13 (cf. Matt 6:13), Mosiah 3:7 (cf. Luke 22:44), 3 Nephi 12:44 (cf. Matt 5:44), and 3 Nephi 13:4 (cf. Matt 6:4). And there are many more, but these will suffice to show the true origin of the Book of Mormon. On a related note, 2 Nephi 15:25 copies the KJV translation error of Isa 5:25 (s/b "refuse" or "dung" not "torn").

Returning directly to the Book of Mormon, there are also factual errors which betray its human origin. I would include serious grammatical errors here, since it should be kept in mind that the Book of Mormon English "translation" was supposedly dictated word-for-word by the Holy Spirit. The original Book of Mormon contains literally thousands of such errors, most of which have since been corrected. But the most embarrasing errors have to the do with the Elizabethan language in the original Book of Mormon. When Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, he evidently elected to use such KJV-like language throughout, even though that was not the way people talked in New York in the 1820's. Needless to say, he made all sorts of mistakes, EXCEPT in places where the Book of Mormon plagiarized from the KJV.

The fact that there are numerous disagreements between the Bible and the Book of Mormon does not dismiss the Bible in any way. In fact, a Bible believer would expect there to be contradictions between the two, since the Bible never gives any legitimacy to the Book of Mormon, but actually condemns it (cf. Galatians 1:6-9, Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Peter 1:3, and Jude 3). On the other hand, the Book of Mormon easily is exposed as fiction when compared to and contrasted with the Bible, which Mormons claim is “the word of God.”

As far are the legitimacy of Joseph Smith claim as a God anointed prophet, if he was a true prophet from God, then his prophecies should have come to pass. However, there are plenty of cases where they did not. For example, Joseph Smith claimed that before 1891, and before he reached the age of 85, Jesus Christ would return. Well, Joseph Smith did not reach the age of 85 - he was murdered on the 27th of July 1844. And we know that Jesus Christ didn't return before 1891, bringing an end to the present world order.

While some LDS members claim that the progressive/moderate (also called "New Order") Mormons are more in line with historic Christianity, it is not the case. Moderate mormons are more in line with the liberal left. For example, they embrace homosexuality as a choice, not a sin.



What the Mormon Church believes is one thing but their practice is directly opposite. The non-biblical doctrine of the church is riddled with incongruity and contradiction. Examples:

• LDSers believe that all souls have free agency and free will. But, if a member chooses any behavior in opposition to the prescribed line of doctrine taught by the prophets, the stake presidents, the bishops, home teacher, they will shame and shun the violator until they repent and return to the fold.
• LDSers believe that the Mormon church embraces all truth universally. But they instruct members not to read anything written by anyone who isn't a Mormon.
• LDSers believe that the Holy Ghost will witness the truth of all things to you. But if a member has a witness that they should do something not conditional to the Mormon doctrine, then it is not inspired by the Holy Ghost, but Satan.
• LDSers believe each man is accountable for their own sins. But if a members child goes astray from the church it's on the parent's head as a burden of sin.
• LDSers believe that God will never let the prophet of the church lead Mormons astray. But if he does he will bless the Mormons for following a fallen prophet.

Each week when Mormons take the sacrament/communion, they are renewing the covenant they made at baptism. Mormons are not baptized into Christ, but into the membership of the Mormon Church. Mormon baptism is the first requirement on the way to “exaltation” (godhood). Furthermore, the baptism (and blessing of the sacrament) is performed by one holding a false priesthood. The LDS member, through the weekly partaking of the sacrament, is renewing a covenant to follow the Jesus of Mormonism (Lucifer’s spirit brother, whose atonement is not enough to cover all sins). Even though the so-called LDSer may not believe in the Mormon Jesus, his participation implies approval of a false christ and false doctrines to those around him.

Simply put, if both the Bible and the Book of Mormon were inspired by God, then they never would contradict each other. However, since they do disagree with one another (in many, many places), the Book of Mormon is obviously a fraud, written by fallen men, men not inspired by the Creator or the Holy Spirit.

More truth uncovering Mormonism: http://www.eternalpath.com/forums/mo...eph-smith.html

[SERay]

Recent Mormon PR Books

There is a new book by LDS called "Modern Mormonism: Myths and Realities" by Greg Kofford Books. It is an eye-opening book. Everyone who has any interest in LDS religion should read it, if for no other reason, to grasp what LDSers really believe.

I am not particularly concerned about the details of “Mormon underwear” and “Temple work,” and other eccentric teachings that have no bearing on eternal life. I go right to the heart of the matter, uncovering the important issues. Is Jesus God and Savior? To me, this is the crucial issue when trying to decide whether a person or group is authentically Christian. All kinds of religions and non-religious philosophies accept Jesus Christ as a prophet, a sage, a cynic, a magician, even the “Son of God” as do the Jehovah Witnesses.

On page 15, the author states “while Jesus was fully human, He was also fully God. That means–and this is vital–that we (LDSers) worship the Son of God as God the Son, as do all other Christians. … How He became the infinite and eternal God is, from my perspective, immaterial, if in fact it does not in any way detract from my love and unbounded adoration of Him.”

Any faithful Christian would like the first part of that confession, but wince over the second part. How does an infinite being “become God?” How can any informed, authentic Christian believe Jesus “became God?” The official teaching of the Mormon church is Jesus “became” god, but no one knows when that happened. Why? Because each individual is left to figure that out on their own. It is easy to find a common thread among most any LDSers is they are very confused about theology. Although Dr. Millet’s book is no doubt good, the official doctrine of the church is seen as all the more slippery.

The writer's point is that Jesus does not need to be and indeed cannot be supplemented because there is no deficiency in the revelation and redemption he provides. That being the case I cannot accept the further revelation that the LDS claims to offer Christianity with its book of Mormon, in its current doctrinal state. While there is evidence that Mormonism may be moving toward a more orthodox theology, however, it would have to completely renounce its past and its founder to do so. In spite of the theological deviations, I consider SOME LDSers "Christian" in spite of their corrupt church doctrine.

There is another highly regarded book by Robert L. Millet called "A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-Day Saints." Dr. Millet makes it clear that he holds to the traditional LDS view that Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of the Father (And, of course, the rarely mentioned heavenly mother). He is the elder brother of all the other spirit children (humanity) of God. He also affirms that Jesus is God, that he is endless and eternal (page 20). This is contradictory to biblical revelation. This is of major importance, but it is not the only major problem with Mormonism. Polytheism is just as big of a problem. As is the declaration by Joseph Smith that the Father was not always God. In "Bridging the Divide: The Continuing Conversation Between A Mormon and an Evangelical" Millet says, “Joseph Smith taught that God is an Exalted Man, a Man of Holiness, and that while He is God and possesses every power, every divine quality, and every perfected attribute, He is not of a different species with mortal men and women” (page 58).

I have followed the Evangelical–Mormon conversation ongoing and think they have been very enlightening. The fact is, yes, there are elements at which Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, and Evangelicals agree to greater or lesser extents (we all believe in angels, judgment day, heaven & hell, etc.). But it is where we disagree that defines the boundaries of our beliefs and affects the way we interrelate. You’ll find LDS statements that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct beings instead of one as sound doctrine teaches. They teach the Father and Son and Holy Ghost, the ‘Godhead”, are resurrected men who progressed to godhood, just as any obedient male LDS church member who attains the highest level of salvation can do. You will find a LDS belief in our pre-mortal existence as spirit children of God, and that Jesus, though firstborn, was also a spirit child of God like us. Mormons do not embrace Monotheism, rather they believe the term ‘god’ to be an economical term rather than an ontological one. Three Gods among un untold number of Gods in a polytheistic universe. Indeed, the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints see Christ differently than historical Christianity. Otherwise, there would be no need for such a book as "A Different Jesus?"

Paul aptly wrote "false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough!" Galatians 5:9. Meaning, it only takes a little doctrinal error to contaminate the doctrine and flock of the faithful. While keeping the doctrine pure sounds to be obsessive and rigid, it is no less a command. "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers." 1 Timothy 4:16. By some of today's ecumenical church standard's, we are to "tolerate" and embrace all in spite of wrong belief, but this is not the counsel of the Spirit of Truth. Deuteronomy 22:10 also tells us "Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together." Do not try to come along side with one of another persuasion in opposition to the revealed revelation of God, for there can be no effective unity on the path of life.

The Spirit also admonishes by letter those in the Church in Pergamum, about accepting a cult called the "Nicolaitans" without contention, calling the church to repent. (Revelation 2:15) Finally, those contending for the TRUE faith have a clear warning about embracing those deceived. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." 2 John 1:9-11.

[SERay]

In addition to the above thoughts, I want to add, the Mormon's have a different view of the Trinity compared to inspired Canon of Scripture. They are indeed three distinct person's but distinctly coexisting in unity as co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. God exists as three persons, or hypostases, but is one being, that is, has but a single divine nature. The Mormons view of the Godhead as three separate beings who are one in purpose rather than essence. The Father and Son are considered to have perfected, material bodies, while the Holy Spirit has a body of spirit. The three persons are considered to be fully separate gods, but united in will and purpose. Joseph Smith taught there is one Godhead and that humans can have a place, as joint-heirs with Christ, if they follow the laws and ordinances of the gospel. This process of Theosis, or to become a god in Mormonism, means literally that humans become full, complete, joint-heirs with Jesus and to inherit all that he inherits. Mormon’s believe humanity has the ability be become gods through the Atonement of Jesus, while humanity will remain eternally subject to God the Father.

I don't find the difference in the Trinitarian position is the problem as much as they think they can become as "gods" on earth as co-equal to Christ. That is serious doctrinal failure and certainly attractive to the ego. There is no room in their doctrine for reckoning oneself dead in Christ, putting the old nature to death and daily being renewed into the new nature planted in us. The Mormon's are NOT by faith delivering the old nature to death, but trying to refine it... which cannot be done and be in Christ. We must fully reckon ourselves dead in Christ, so the new nature can be substantiated by daily sanctification.

Mormon's believe "Yes I believe that a human can become a God." It true Mormonism, gravely distinct from what the Bible teaches. Mormons believe that humankind is the literal offspring of God, and that their highest God-given potential is to someday become like Him. They believe that all humankind lived as spirits with their father and mother in heaven before being born on earth and receiving physical bodies.

Mormons point to scriptural evidence for this idea, found in:

• Genesis3:4-5, "But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
• John 10: 34, where Jesus asks: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? " referring to Psalms 82:6 which reads "Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
• Romans 8: 16-17 says: "we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together"
• Matthew 5: 48 reads: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (emphasis added.) Mormons don't believe God would give a commandment to humankind that they aren't capable of fulfilling, suggesting their potential to become like God in the eternities.

What is unique about Genesis 3:4-5 is it is lie. The serpent SAID they will become like God, but it is a lie, one that the Mormons believe. Thus they are still under the spell of Satan to believe it.

Isaiah 44:6-8 refutes the Mormons:

Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
"I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.[a]
Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people.
Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any."

and Isaiah 43:10-11:

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior."

The Mormon's also teach that couples will rear spirit children in heaven. But Paul wrote that we will not be given to marriage, will be like angels, without sexual distinction. "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30) Paul didn't say we would be like God's, but like angels. This too is contrary to the Mormon view of heaven.

Paul quoted Isaiah 64:4 which reads "For from of old men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen a God beside thee, which worketh for him that waiteth for him." he states like this: "But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him” (1 Corinthians 2:9). No one has seen heaven, heard anything from heaven, even began to imagine heaven, for what is waiting our mortal minds cannot possible fathom because as mortals, we have no point of reference by which to translate through our earthly six senses and limited intellect. We have no way of mortally comprehending what heaven will be like. The Mormon's think they have heaven figured out, yet they are completely wrong... desperately wrong.

[Christopher]

Great link

Thanks for the link on how to witness to a Jehovah's Witness, my neighbor has since fallen in with that lot and I fear for her soul.

I actully blame myself a little, if I would have been a little bit more active with my own witnessing, I might have headed off the issue before they came knocking on her door.