Homosexuality:

[Jeanne]

Question was raised as to how people should be addressed. I have several opinions on this.

As an individual human being, a homosexual person should be treated no differently than anyone else. God loves them just the same; their issue(s) with Him are between Him and them. "Love the sinner; hate the sin." I had several friends who were homosexual; one actually helped me return to the church after having no interest for many years. I wondered about her relationship with the Lord, knowing that she was homosexual. But I realized that she's not the only one who has sinned, and that it was not my business, but hers. If she was not a Christian, I would have tried to help to bring her to the Lord, but she was way ahead of me on that.

Also, our pastor's wife and I were talking, and I was expressing that I wasn't sure what to do, or if I was doing wrong by association (I was a baby Christian at that time). Her response was, "Isn't it wonderful to know that it isn't up to US to judge, but only up to Him? Love the sinner, hate the sin."

HOWEVER, if we're discussing homosexuals as an organization of people with an agenda, trying to become as "normal and American as apple pie," I take issue with that in a HUGE, HUGE way. Homosexuality in the Bible is a sin, and although we forgive others of their sins, "others" aren't trying to push their sin on us as an alternative lifestyle. America IS a Christian nation; it was founded that way, and although there are those out there who are trying to remove Christ from this country, they cannot change history and they cannot change who we were and are as a nation. People DO sin; they go to bars, they drink, they divorce, etc., etc. But again, most people who sin know that they have sinned, and don't spend a lot of time trying to encourage others to do the same. I am totally against the homosexual agenda, and I am sick and tired of every single television show having homosexual couples, as though to try to convince us that 50% of our population is homosexual, anyway, so we might as well give in.

And that's my opinion on that.

[SERay]

Not much I can add to that... Well put!

[Miguel]

Hi i wanted to thank the Admin for inviting me to this forum, I wanted to also thank you for your comment, as a Child I experanced these practices on two occasions, I dont believe people are born with homosexual tendences, but because of sin we act acordingly to our own flesh, thus then we get into origanal sin and having experinced this it partly was very disturbing to me and effected my a part of my childhood, my perents at the time where dealing with leaving the children of God cult, and I suffered from alot of other issues.

beside the point, it is true that Christ died for the sinner, but he also hates it when we sin, this makes us set apart from God, and not God from us, because God cannot look upon sin, as commanded in scripture we love the sinner but we can in no way justify a homosexual lifestyle and practice, as the Bible says that sinners need to repent from all sin's I do street evangelism work and it is hard some times because most of the opposition comes from "so-called" "Christians" that do not agree that the gospel should be preach, the Bible says the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, homosexuals need saving as the moslems etc.

I believe that Homosexuality is a bigger issue then Islam in the UK, te Gay and Lesbian lobby wants to remove freespeach so that in being a Christian would be that it would need to be confined in a building and not out on the street in public, the aim is to remove the bible aventually.

The Gay rights movement made it clear when they where protesting "where at war against the Church and against God", because they hate the word of God, as Manchester England is the Homosexual capital of europe, come april 30 the new laws will be implace with would make any street preacher a criminal if they preach against the homosexual lifestyle or practice, when people like my self cover on sinfull lifestyles such as, Lust, Envy, Coverting, Pride, Homosexuality, fornication, hatred, murder, strife etc.

They say i have to preach what is apropreate but I can mention any other sin other then the homosexual lifestyle, this i will not obmitt from my preaching, it is not simply we should consentraite on the homosexual issue but all sin.

but when they go against the Bible, i have to brake the law to obey God, and as such their is a plague in the United Kingdom, God will rise up islam in the west just as he did with Israel when he lead them into captiverty into babylon.

the West is being judged, while Christianity is thriving in the far east, Christinity is declining in the west, the Bible has lost all of its influences in the UK.

In the next threads i will explain why.

Miguel

[CarlSW]

There are gay people who agree with some of these points.

A lot of people don't see gay rights as a question of anyone approving of homosexuality.

There are people who are harassed (vandalism, threats of violence, etc.), bullied, and not treated fairly or justly. To turn a deaf ear on such matters, is not Christian.

That some people who are mistreated are sinners in one way or another, shouldn't surprise anyone who believes that we all are sinners.

It seems to me it's pretty simple: don't like homosexuality, fine; don't approve of homosexual actions, fine; say so in public, fine; but also be against harassment, bullying, injustice, and speak against the sort of unfairness that would treat whole groups of people as second-class or third-rate citizens.

People get riled up and on either side people will want their emotions recognized on the subject, and it gets personal, gay people get frustrated at lies that are sometimes made against them, and people who are against homosexual behavior get frustrated at the assumptions that their disagreement is something more obnoxious when it isn't, and then the next thing you know someone is saying how it's unjust to not accept homosexual behavior as moral and another person is saying how it's wrong for the government to even consider gay rights -- in those examples both are missing key points: injustice is about people being harmed or mistreated or treated unfairly, not about disagreements over moral judgment; governments are supposed to recognize certain civil and human rights to all as a matter of principle, not to deny rights to people because they are gay.

I think people need to figure out how to get along in societies without trying to use the government to harass each other or without starting ridiculous fights amongst themselves.

[Miguel]

you said

A lot of people don't see gay rights as a question of anyone approving of homosexuality.

My reply is

I dont believe that Christians should not be forced into bowing down to the god of Gay Rights, A Christian will act out of conscience because Christians are obligated to obey God rather then Man, Gay Rights dose more then aprove of homosexuality it states that every one must aprove of its practice when the God of the bible says it is wrong, a morel sin, acording to Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9, God does not create a person with homosexual desires, A person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of his or her own choice.

We also believe and teach that homosexuality is just as forgivable a sin as all other sins, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God’s love and desire to save extends to homosexuals (John 3:16; Romans 5:8).

Again we are not speaking out against any individual, we are simply dealing with the issue of Sin.


You wrote

There are people who are harassed (vandalism, threats of violence, etc.), bullied, and not treated fairly or justly. To turn a deaf ear on such matters, is not Christian.

My Response

If people are harassed though vandalism, threats of violence, etc, yes i agree it is wrong this is not what we are taught and this is in accordence with Christ, now tell me one Christian who has actively gone against any indevidual on the bases of vandalism, threats of violence, etc.

Speaking against sin is not simply bullying people into the Kingdom of God, God dose not support that, it is simply again denouncing sin not the indevidual.

You Stated

That some people who are mistreated are sinners in one way or another, shouldn't surprise anyone who believes that we all are sinners.

My repsonse

Name one case where a Christian has mistreated a individual because of their sin, yes we are all sinners and in need of a Saviour.

You Stated

It seems to me it's pretty simple: don't like homosexuality, fine; don't approve of homosexual actions, fine; say so in public, fine; but also be against harassment, bullying, injustice, and speak against the sort of unfairness that would treat whole groups of people as second-class or third-rate citizens.

My Response,

You're making an overstated generalization, the issue is not where a Christian likes homosexuality or not, to a Christian the issue is what God says, not the individual, its not for me to say whether or not homosexuality is wrong, as it is also not for me to say whether or not stealing is wrong, its for God to state it, and he does, the point being to a Christian the Bible is a authority we base our faith on, and looking at more of what the God of the Bible things about the Issue and every Issue for that matter, it is wrong for me to say stealing is wrong, but it would be right for me to say God says stealing is a sin, God says the practice of Homosexuality is a sin, and not I.

You stated

People get riled up and on either side people will want their emotions recognized on the subject,

My response

Well okay, the issue is about for a Christian's prespective how this will affect us, our freedoms to practice our faith outside the confines of a Church meeting, how this will affect Charities etc, this has nothing to do with only emotional aspects but practical aspects of having the freedoms to practice what we are obligated to obey.

your Statement

and it gets personal, gay people get frustrated at lies that are sometimes made against them,

my reply

ok you just made a generalization, first and foremost we are forbidden as believers to bear false witness against another, what Christian is spreading false rumours against any individual homosexual ????

You stated

and people who are against homosexual behavior get frustrated at the assumptions that their disagreement is something more obnoxious when it isn't,


My response

Again to a Christian it's not simply about just having a moral dissagreement, its about what God said not what I think.

God is my authority.

You stated

and then the next thing you know someone is saying how it's unjust to not accept homosexual behavior as moral and another person is saying how it's wrong for the government to even consider gay rights -

My response

The issue is that the Gay rights groups are at war with the God of the Bible, the soul aim is to remove the bible alltogether as this has happend in Canada.

Goto

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7664929225320091404&q=jeremiah+films

Watch the vid.

The issue is what the God of the Bible thinks of this issue, again not what I think.

You stated

- in those examples both are missing key points: injustice is about people being harmed or mistreated or treated unfairly, not about disagreements over moral judgment; governments are supposed to recognize certain civil and human rights to all as a matter of principle, not to deny rights to people because they are gay.

My Response

Under God Christians are not to compromise his moral position on this issue, for example a Christian can sell books to homosexuals, but God dose not allow two homosexual men to sleep in the bed together, and to marry etc. This is forbidden acording to the Bible, but we cannot refuse any sinner on other grounds, we are to show them love yes, but as long as that abides by the teachings of God, but we as believers of the cross are not to endorse or accept anything that goes against Gods word.

The Bible is our guide book, it tell us how to live, treat others, to love in the way we obey God, to bare witness to the truth.

You stated

I think people need to figure out how to get along in societies without trying to use the government to harass each other or without starting ridiculous fights amongst themselves.

My Reply

I believe that the goverment should not be involved in religous issues, or these issues, but Jesus said to be seperate to this world view and have a Christ Centered world view, Jesus said do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

You see, as long as we Christians are around, the world will never except us, Jesus said, the world hates you because of me.

[CarlSW]

>> A Christian will act out of conscience because Christians are obligated to obey God rather then Man

As will non-Christians... as will people who consider themselves a different sort of Christian whether you consider them Christians or not.

>> Gay Rights dose more then aprove of homosexuality it states that every one must aprove of its practice when the God of the bible says it is wrong, a morel sin

Um, no 'Gay Rights' does not state that. There are people who are confused and say a lot of things, and there are people who are for gay rights who ALSO want people to approve of homosexuality or homosexual relationships, but that's two different sorts of topics.

Gay rights at its core is about the right of a gay person to be protected by police from thugs, vandals, people who would harass, intimidate, or use violence against them, and also to make sure that gay people are treated fairly under the law, that their civil rights are not neglected.

There are people who still disapprove of inter-racial marriages, and some of them actually look at it as a matter of religion, of Christian religion. Now, you and I may agree that this is NOT what Christian religion is about, they disagree. The will insist that their conscience tells them they should not support inter-racial couples. If they own a bed and breakfast, or have a service that may be used by people getting married, they may wish to tell someone at the front desk or at the day of a scheduled event/holiday, ooops, sorry, we don't serve your kind here. They might be sued, it is a possibility. Or the offended party might just get out of there and leave it at that.

In any case, when someone's looking for a hotel or when they've planned a vacation, if someone wants to make a moral point over the arrangements, the practical effect is that the offended party is looking for shelter for the evening, perhaps in bad weather, and they are being treated as a second-class citizen, it's like approving of segregation conditions.

If someone wishes to have a private club and have certain services for members only, then fine, but don't advertize PUBLICALLY. A public business is public, you know.

That's my main problem with some of the things you are talking about.

>>, acording to Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9, God does not create a person with homosexual desires, A person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of his or her own choice.

And when the subject is what religious views you or others have, there is a place for you to simply state that view, if you wish, and for others to disagree.

>> If people are harassed though vandalism, threats of violence, etc, yes i agree it is wrong this is not what we are taught and this is in accordence with Christ, now tell me one Christian who has actively gone against any indevidual on the bases of vandalism, threats of violence, etc.

Ever hear of Matthew Shepard? Ever hear of Fred Phelps? There are people who rally people against homosexual in very hateful terms. There were people at Mat Shepard's funeral protesting it and saying things about homosexuals goint to Hell at the funeral. I did a google and found a blog that said "Swaggart, poster boy for rightwing nutjob fundamentalists everywhere, explains how he would kill a homosexual for coming on to him and tell God "he died."

If you claim that Christians are perfect and that when someone does various things but claims to be a Christian ISN'T a real Christian, that's dogding the question. In the practical world we live in people do use Christianity as an excuse. Lots of bullies look for excuses/cover. Christians shouldn't LET them use Christianity as a cover, that's my point.

http://dark-sided.blogspot.com/2006/...xual-cant.html

>> Speaking against sin is not simply bullying people into the Kingdom of God, God dose not support that, it is simply again denouncing sin not the indevidual.

I agree, speaking against sin MIGHT NOT be bullying people, but for some people it IS bullying people.

[CarlSW]

>> Name one case where a Christian has mistreated a individual because of their sin, yes we are all sinners and in need of a Saviour.

Well 'heretics' were tortured by Protestants and Catholics alike. There are Christian parents who beat a child to death and then say they were posessed, there was a case where an 'excorsism' resulted in death quite recently.

>> You're making an overstated generalization, the issue is not where a Christian likes homosexuality or not, to a Christian the issue is what God says, not the individual, its not for me to say whether or not homosexuality is wrong, as it is also not for me to say whether or not stealing is wrong, its for God to state it

Well say it or don't say it, that's fine by me. If anyone speaks rudely or arrogantly or with some enjoyment of counting the faults of others, they are open to Paul's observations in 1 Cor 13, or other responses that are appropriate to the manner and content of what was said.

>> Well okay, the issue is about for a Christian's prespective how this will affect us, our freedoms to practice our faith outside the confines of a Church meeting, how this will affect Charities etc, this has nothing to do with only emotional aspects but practical aspects of having the freedoms to practice what we are obligated to obey.

Ok. When handing out food in a soup kitchen, what could possibly get in the way of charitably handing out food in the soup kitchen? If someone doesn't want to talk about religion, what's so hard about saying "ok, well here's the soup"

IF what someone is about is simply being charitable, and/or IF what they are about is simply saying what they understand to be the truth to people who are interested, then I don't see any problem and I don't think most juries would see a problem, and I don't think there is a legal problem.

IF what someone is about is pressuring people who don't want to be pressured, THEN there are questions of harassment.

>> ok you just made a generalization, first and foremost we are forbidden as believers to bear false witness against another, what Christian is spreading false rumours against any individual homosexual ????

There are people who talk about homosexuality or about gay people, so sloppily, and so nastily, I could characterize it as slander, lies, etc. There are people compare homosexuals to pedophiles or to people whoa re into bestiality, either implying or directly stating that these things go together, as if gay people were mroe likely to be sexual predators or whatnot. To mouth off like that is a DISREGARD for truth, NOT a high regard for truth. If you don't seek truth, you aren't likely to find it, and in any case, not caring about truth doesn't sound very Christian to me. If someone cared enough for truth to look into evidence, they'd find that someone being gay is a different issue than someone being a sexual predator or bestiophile, the evidence does not suggest any causal link.

>> Again to a Christian it's not simply about just having a moral dissagreement, its about what God said not what I think.

Then it is a lack of faith and humility that many Christians are dealing with, if they get so frustrated about getting God's word out, as if their personal frustration were God's frustration, as if God was at a loss without their moral speaches.

>> The issue is that the Gay rights groups are at war with the God of the Bible, the soul aim is to remove the bible alltogether as this has happend in Canada.

That's a lot of assumptions and pretty general.

Exactly what about the gay rights movement are you talking about. There are people who want their own church to marry homosexuals, yes. But there are many others who are not trying in any way to change whether a church marries homosexuals. And there are even a lot of gay people who are concerned for gay rights, who aren't interested in gay marriage. And others who are only concerned that hospital visitation and inheritance laws are fair towards homosexuals.

I don't see any gay rights movement trying to take the Bible out of your church or home.

>> The issue is what the God of the Bible thinks of this issue, again not what I think.

But I'm not sure what you are saying.

If you are saying that in general gay rights is about sin and law, well I understand what you are saying.

But the law DOES protect sinners. Vigilantes can't just go out and lynch everyone who they think is having sex out of wedlock.

>> Under God Christians are not to compromise his moral position on this issue, for example a Christian can sell books to homosexuals, but God dose not allow two homosexual men to sleep in the bed together, and to marry etc.

So what's the problem? If you want to marry people, become a pastor in a church that doesn't believe in marrying gay people. If you want to run a christian-only bed and breakfast, don't advertise in the public telephone directory, advertize only to Christians as a Christian thing.

What are you wanting to refuse? By what actions do you think Christians must be able to refuse to endorse something?

There's plenty of hotels down the street from me that will take in unmarried heterosexuals all the time. If no one's getting beaten or killed or raped, if it's consentual adults, their business is renting the room, literally that IS their business. If someone wanted to rent only to conservative Christian couples, why advertize to the general public?

>> The Bible is our guide book, it tell us how to live, treat others, to love in the way we obey God, to bare witness to the truth.

Some people take it to say that homosexuals should be put to death today, by today's governments.

The governments of the free world aren't about to do that, but there are Arabic countries who are willing to do it.

>> I believe that the goverment should not be involved in religous issues, or these issues, but Jesus said to be seperate to this world view and have a Christ Centered world view, Jesus said do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Rights have a lot to do with the government not treating people unfairly, and public businesses not misusing their power.

Sometimes people in the world hate others because of injustice, unfairness, things like that, though. Claims of persecution aren't an excuse, whether they are quotes from Jesus or anyone else.

[Miguel]

you may dissagree with the bible but your arguement is with God not me, your war is with God and against the God of the Bible, It is a mortal sin against God to comit such and Gods view is thst men need to repent from Sin, Sin is the issue as far as God is concerned.

If the bible in your view is a homophobic book then so be it, if God is homophobic then take it up with the author who wrote the book, i will not bow the knee to the God of Gay rights. here are bible quotes argue all you want but God always wins.

The Bible says "A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. " (Gen. 2:23, 24)

it dose not say A man will leave his father and mother and be united to another man and become one flesh, no its w o m a n.

Satan, has such hatred for God, has done his best to distort and destroy both of the institutions that God had instituted.

This included adultery (sex between a man and woman that are not married, incest (sex between close family members, either by blood or marriage), homosexual encounters (sex between members of the same sex), sex with animals,

In the worship of Ishtar (originally pronounced Easter). fetuses aborted from pregnancies brought about through these "acts of worship" were offered to the goddess. Often when a pagan nation conquered another, they ripped open the pregnant women to offer their fetuses to their god.

In God's sight is homosexuality, even more so than prostitution. Why? Because man in particular was created in God's express image.

The Ten Commandments define man's duty to God and his fellow humans

Exod. 20:1 And God spoke all these words: 2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

I. 3"You shall have no other gods before me.
II. 4"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
III. 7"You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
IV. 8"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
V. 12"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
VI. 13"You shall not murder.
VII. 14"You shall not commit adultery.
VIII. 15"You shall not steal.
IX. 16"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
X. 17"You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Seduction and animal sex

Exod. 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins. 18"Do not allow a sorceress to live. 19"Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

Worship of the golden calf led to immorality

Exod. 32:1 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him."

2Aaron answered them, "Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me." 3So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt."

5When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." 6So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry. [Others versions of the Bible say to play, to engage in sexual immorality]

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, `These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.' . . .

17When Joshua heard the noise of the people shouting, he said to Moses, "There is the sound of war in the camp."
18Moses replied: "It is not the sound of victory, it is not the sound of defeat; it is the sound of singing that I hear."
19When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. 20And he took the calf they had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink it.
21He said to Aaron, "What did these people do to you, that you led them into such great sin?"

[Miguel]

22"Do not be angry, my lord," Aaron answered. "You know how prone these people are to evil. 23They said to me, `Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him.' 24So I told them, `Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.' Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!" 25Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him.
27Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: `Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'" 28The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."

30The next day Moses said to the people, "You have committed a great sin. But now I will go up to the LORD; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin."
31So Moses went back to the LORD and said, "Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32But now, please forgive their sin --but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written."


33The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin." 35And the LORD struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.




Unlawful sexual relations

Lev. 18:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `I am the LORD your God. 3You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
6"`No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
7"`Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.
9"`Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10"`Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.
11"`Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13"`Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14"`Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15"`Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16"`Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17"`Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18"`Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19"`Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20"`Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21"`Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

Do not lie with a man as with a woman

[Miguel]

22"`Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23"`Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24"`Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
29"`Everyone who does any of these detestable things --such persons must be cut off from their people. 30Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.'"

Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute

Lev. 19:2 "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: `Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy. . . . 20"`If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. . . . 29"`Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.

Those who engage in unlawful sexual relations must be put to death

Lev. 20:10 "`If a man commits adultery with another man's wife --with the wife of his neighbor --both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
11"`If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
12"`If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
13"`If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
14"`If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
15"`If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
16"`If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
17"`If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
18"`If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
19"`Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
20"`If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless. 21"`If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

[Miguel]

The way of the adulteress

Prov. 5:1 My son, pay attention to my wisdom, listen well to my words of insight, 2that you may maintain discretion and your lips may preserve knowledge. 3For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil; 4but in the end she is bitter as gall, sharp as a double-edged sword. 5Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave. 6She gives no thought to the way of life; her paths are crooked, but she knows it not. 7Now then, my sons, listen to me; do not turn aside from what I say. 8Keep to a path far from her, do not go near the door of her house, 9lest you give your best strength to others and your years to one who is cruel, 10lest strangers feast on your wealth and your toil enrich another man's house. 11At the end of your life you will groan, when your flesh and body are spent. 12You will say, "How I hated discipline! How my heart spurned correction! 13I would not obey my teachers or listen to my instructors. 14I have come to the brink of utter ruin in the midst of the whole assembly." 15Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. 16Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? 17Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. 18May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19A loving doe, a graceful deer-- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love. 20Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife? 21For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths.

God is grieved by adulterous hearts

Ezek. 6:8 "`But I will spare some, for some of you will escape the sword when you are scattered among the lands and nations. 9Then in the nations where they have been carried captive, those who escape will remember me --how I have been grieved by their adulterous hearts, which have turned away from me, and by their eyes, which have lusted after their idols. They will loathe themselves for the evil they have done and for all their detestable practices. 10And they will know that I am the LORD; I did not threaten in vain to bring this calamity on them.

[Miguel]

Ezek. 18:5 "Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right. 6He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of the house of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor's wife or lie with a woman during her period. 7He does not oppress anyone, but returns what he took in pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked. 8He does not lend at usury or take excessive interest. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between man and man. 9He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Hosea 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Hosea son of Beeri during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and during the reign of Jeroboam son of Jehoash king of Israel: 2When the LORD began to speak through Hosea, the LORD said to him, "Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness, because the land is guilty of the vilest adultery in departing from the LORD." 3So he married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

If one looks at a woman lustfully, he has already committed adultery

Matt. 5:27 [Jesus said] "You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. . . . 31"It has been said, `Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Matt. 12:38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." 39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here. 42The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.



Regarding divorce and adultery

Matt. 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" 4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,' 5and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." 10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." 11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Matt. 19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18"Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "`Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,' and `love your neighbor as yourself.' " 20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" 21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

[Miguel]

Those who sin and recognize their need for cleansing have a greater chance for salvation than the pretentious righteous who feel they have no need of cleansing

Matt. 21:28 "What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, `Son, go and work today in the vineyard.' 29"`I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, `I will, sir,' but he did not go. 31"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.


What comes out of one's heart is what makes one unclean

Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him `unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him `unclean.' " 1617After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him `unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") 20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him `unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man `unclean.'"

Mark 8:34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? 37Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 38If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."


What God has joined together, let man not separate

Mark 10:2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" 3"What did Moses command you?" he replied. 4They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away." 5"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6"But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female.' 7`For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good --except God alone. 19You know the commandments: `Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.' " 20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

[Miguel]

Those committing homosexual acts received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Commentary: There should be no doubt in the Christian's mind that the current AIDS crisis among today's homosexual community is a result of their perverse acts, the reception within themselves of the due penalty for their perversion (v. 27). Nevertheless, it is the Christian's duty to reach out to the lost, so that some may be brought to repentance, and thus be saved.

It is also a sad commentary on the state of so many of our politicians that many actually court the favor of the politically active gay and lesbian communities. Perhaps the last paragraph above explains the essence of the makeup of these politicians who "approve of those who practice them."

Rom. 2:17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

Rom. 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Sexual immorality in the early church - Do not associate with sexually immoral people

1Cor. 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast --as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth. 9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

[Miguel]

Those who are sexually immoral, adulterers, male prostitutes or homosexual offenders will not inherit the kingdom of God

1Cor. 6:1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another --and this in front of unbelievers!
7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.